Wary (and Racy)

I tried an experiment. Although it was the "wrong" thing to do, I built Wary/Racy with the GTK 2.20.1 PETs from Wary 5.1.x. The reason that it is "wrong" is that the core packages in 5.2.x were recompiled in T2, with GTK 2.24.5 and some later libraries (ex: pixman, cairo, glib). However, as reported, there are problems with GTK 2.24.x. To roll GTK back by just plunking in the PETs from Wary 5.1.x is just asking for trouble.

Or so it would seem. I built it, and everything seems to work. Well, I haven't checked printing, that is one area where there might be some difference between the GTK versions.

Terryphi posted about "tester fatigue". Yes, I am getting "developer fatigue" with these troubles with GTK. I really want to get Wary and Racy 5.2.2 released, then move on to other stuff -- multi-architecture Woof and ARM Puppy. So, give a run, if it looks ok, I'll go with that for the final.

I will be off-line for approximately the next 48 hours, maybe slightly less. Starting from about now. Racy has been uploaded, Wary is still uploading, eta 15 minutes from now:

Racy: http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/test/racy-

Wary: http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/test/wary-

As soon as the upload has completed, I will be going off-line. Got other family-related stuff to do for a couple of days.

Please go here to provide Wary feedback:

Please go here for Racy feedback:

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 8:58


Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 13:31 by GreatnessguruInMI
Dual boot Puppy on Verizon Android?
Yes, an ARM Puppy might be nice to have
for dual booting Puppy on my new, MilSpec ruggedized Verizon Casio Commando!
-Eddie Maddox

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 14:50 by broomdodger
seamonkey slow pages, flash not downloaded
seamonkey some pages load VERY slowly
Flash askes to download, looks like it is downloading and then gives a message:
"Sorry, the Player did not download. Try the PPM."

I looked in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins and the download file was there, but it did not uncompress and install. Whell that is ok with me, flash is dead, as Adobe recently announced.

Now to find an HTML5 compatible browser.

Same result on two computers:
IBM ThinkPad x30 1.2GHz single core
acer TravelMate 4670 1.6GHZ dual core

Short test before sleep, all my usual apps work, at least load, I will know more tomorrow.


Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 15:54 by broomdodger
seamonkey slow pages
ok, before sleep, I decided to try racy52190 seamonkey on a site and it worked where racy52191 actually hangs seamonkey for 30+ seconds. Really hangs, can not access menus... can switch to app.

The site is ted.com, the talk is 'conception to birth'. since I will no longer download flash, I tried to download the mp4. It works racy52190, but fails racy52191.


Amazing video:


Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 16:15 by Terryphi
Wary 52191 OK!
Wary 52191 works OK for me using my usual programs. I do not use the flash auto-downloader so did not test it. I prefer to manually install flash. Others have reported a problem with browser page download speed but I am not seeing this on Seamonkey or Opera 11.52.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 16:33 by Terryphi
Ditch flash auto-downloader
Reports from other users suggests that the flash auto-downloader seems to be more trouble than it is worth and should be ditched. In my opinion Wary should be released with the latest flash installed and a warning that users need to keep it up to date.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 17:00 by Sage
Wary should be released with the latest flash installed and a warning that users need to keep it up to date.
Here! Here! And the statutory notice to our country cousins that using it violates their crazy Laws, no doubt. But keeping it up to date ain't that easy - Adobe keep moving the URL, allegedly.

Try the new Opera 11.6beta, Terry - nice!

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 17:58 by 01micko
I think flashplayer is a waste of space in the iso. Granted, the auto method isn't perfect.
Here is a flash grabber based on Barry's findings in this post. It parses the main flash download page finding the link to the repo, so if it moves, hopefully we track it.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 18:35 by Terryphi
Agreed, Sage
Try the new Opera 11.6beta, Terry - nice!

Have done Sage. Up to my eyes in Operas at present with Opera-Next 12.00 as well. I will update my SFS for anyone who uses it when Opera 11.60 goes final.

Apologies for intruding with this Opera lovefest.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 18:46 by Terryphi
Wary 52191 Printing OK
Barry wrote that he had not tested printing. I have and it works for me.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 19:23 by Sage
Granted, the auto method isn't perfect.
Not so much 'isn't perfect' more 'doesn't work at all in the present Racy/Wary configurations!
Other issues reported on Forum.
Love away, Terry - the boss is outa town...

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 19:34 by gmbudwrench
To each his own
To each his own I guess, but flash isn't that important to me, I don't visit many sites that need it. With puppy there have been a few instances where I'd download the pet and install it and it wouldn't work for me and I'd end up uninstalling it. I'd say leave it out, let the user install it from the ppm or from the repo page if needed.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 19:36 by Sage
Here is a flash grabber based on Barry's findings in this post. It parses the main flash download page finding the link to the repo, so if it moves, hopefully we track it.
No idea what this is supposed to do, mick? I ran it, but the usual Flash get-ter just popped up, ran that, it d/l-ed the flashplayer and reported that it hadn't. Nothing new there!
Got the tar.gz from Adobe site. It opened in /tmp. What next?!

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 19:40 by gmbudwrench
I use Windows too with Firefox, with flash installed and I have the flashblock extension installed too, with nothing whitelisted, so I guess that's about as close to not having flash as one can get. I don't use flash there either.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 19:43 by Sage
I'd say leave it out, let the user install it from the ppm or from the repo page if needed.
You need to read the whole background to this both on the Forum and in BKs blog, here. It's a question of which version, where it's located (URL), possibly how it's compiled and a whole bunch of problems way outside my remit.
Apart from which, you gotta have it for the BBC iPlayer. If I was still living in the USA, with the poor TV they suffer, I'd want to use iPlayer, even if I had to pay a small sub.
Notwithstanding, the weirdest thing is that, in, the auto d/l actually works: it just reports that it didn't/doesn't. It lies. And doesn't install.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 21:06 by 01micko
sage,, I'll test it soon
Currently compiling your fav browser against the older gtk, see what happens.
The getflash prog works fine in Slacko as of half an hour ago.
I'll test in Racy directly.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 22:55 by Sage
I'll test it soon
Good man, mick!
But, it may be a case of operator ignorance. I have no idea what getflash is supposed to do? Hope you don't expect the unwashed to start moving .so & co files about the mansion like piles of furniture?!

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 23:10 by MagicZaurus
Flashplayer Download Problem
If I understand correct what is happening in the delayedrun script, the problem is line 252.
tar -zxf install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz

The flash which is getting downloaded is version 11, but after that the script tries to untar the version 10 file, which doesn't exist.

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 23:44 by Sage
Flashplayer Download Problem
The great thing about Puppy is that it doesn't take long for a genius to pop-up with the answer.
What do we do next?

Posted on 15 Nov 2011, 24:16 by aragon2
Leave it out?
> What do we do next?

Flashplayer and 'bad' flash-media do convert your hw to a sluggish loud heater... so just leave it out ...


Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 2:45 by broomdodger
What do we do next? (Flash)
@sage "What do we do next?"

1) Adobe has discontinued Flash development for mobile, it is about time to say goodbye to Flash on any platform.

--OR-- if you really NEED Flash

2) Edit the delayedrun script, delete /var/local/internetsuccess and reboot. You will be asked to install Flash and it should now download and install.


Then you will most likely experience the slow/hanging for 30-90 seconds on sites that have Flash.


Edit /usr/sbin/delayedrun

Find and replace lines 252 and 275:
tar -zxf install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz

[ -f install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz ] && rm -f install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz

tar -zxf install_flash_player_11_linux.i386.tar.gz

[ -f install_flash_player_11_linux.i386.tar.gz ] && rm -f install_flash_player_11_linux.i386.tar.gz


Reboot and you will again :( be asked to download Flash, good luck <:P

If you get that bloated sluggish feeling, disable flash by deleting or renaming:

Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 3:34 by Terryphi
Install flash manually!
Installing flash manually does not slow down browsing of web pages for me. Just download the tar.gz file from the Adobe site http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/otherversions/ . Unzip it and copy libflashplayer.so to /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins .

Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 5:36 by Sage
Unzip it and copy libflashplayer.so
Didn't work for me : "opened with an error" . The 'error was that it was absent!

Return of the mouse grief in both Wary&Racy. Had to override with a USB device.


Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 9:02 by technosaurus
flash9 or libgcflashplayer
Ideally, one would download a new flash version iff their video card supports flash acceleration. Flash9 with the version changed is better for cards that don't support acceleration. If there is a list of available cards, a flag file could be set during xorg conf.

Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 14:00 by Sage
Installing flash manually does not slow down browsing of web pages for me.
Late last night managed to get a manual FP install, but it treacled the browser. tc seems to have got the measure of this issue, but unless one install the latest and greatest PCI-e video card, which completely negates the point of using a fast, compact liveCD, we're all stuffed.

This is exactly what I've been griping about recently:
Chasing one's tail to assuage the bellowing of the over-endowed spoilt brats with too much cash and the capitalist pigs who (re)design their latest leverage tools on a daily basis only leads to doom. Capitalism is dead already - it doesn't work. Is it only the intellectuals protesting in NYC and London who can see through to the truth?

Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 16:31 by Terryphi
What should Wary reasonably support?
The problem being discussed here with Flashplayer inevitably raises the question of how old hardware the latest Wary can reasonably be expected to support. I suspect that this is something Barry is frequently struggling with.

I don't know how old the hardware is that some of you are using but my oldest box is a 7 year old cheap Acer laptop with 256 mb RAM which still works with the latest flash.

I am not writing this to be provocative - "Calm down, Sage" - but it is something that needs to be discussed.

Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 17:05 by Sage
What should Wary reasonably support?
Totally agree, Tp. Wary's remit should be clear from the Forum. There are plenty of hobbyists reporting back about old Cyrix and K6 chips - Athlons & Durons should fly: ignore the dumbos who are determined to stuff the pockets of the Wintel cartel. BK tries to be all things to all men and this may not be possible. I have always advocated totally discounting laptops - in a year or so they will all have disappeared, either due to HW failures (including being knocked off the desk, broken tabs, non-availability of proprietary parts, etc) or displacement by smartphones.
What Barry does with Racy is just for the birds.
Better to let him get on with ARM devices. We need to get a Raspberry Pi to him ASAP.

Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 17:55 by mavrothal
+1 for Racy
I'm running puppies in a 8-year old Pentium 4, a 6-year old Pentium M (laptop), a 4-year old AMD Geode LX800 (XO-1), a 2-year old VIA7(XO-1.5) and hopefully soon in a Marvell ARM7 (XO-1.75) machines.
The point is that Puppy should run not only in old machines but also newer but underpowered (of the "embedded" class) machines.
The difference is that newer "underpowered" (see inexpensive) machines have newer motherboards and cards that need to be supported too. I guess that this is what Barry does with wary and racy (updating, Xorg, kernel etc).
To the extend that puppy will keep targeting newer but "underpowered" machines, the "push forward" is necessary so both categories can be supported. The support of newer 4/16-core machines is just a freebee from their new but skimpy cousins.
Of course this category could be dropped, but is hardly justifiable

Posted on 16 Nov 2011, 18:29 by MagicZaurus
Hang with Flashplayer
I think the hangs/slow performance is an issue of SeaMonkey and the Flash plugin in my opinion. My laptop is 4 years old and has 1GB of RAM and I can see hangs of 30-60 seconds if the website has any 'flash'. On the same machine I have no issues with Wary 5.1.1 or Puppy 4.3.1 with the Flash plugin and SeaMonkey.

Posted on 17 Nov 2011, 6:02 by BarryK
I'm back
Online again. I fixed the Flash download problem. I have also fixed the "slow" Flash problem.

The latter is a curious one. SeaMonkey has a "plugin container" that protects the browser from crashing if the plugin fails. That was reporting to /tmp/xerrs.log that 'libxcb-xlib.so.0' is missing. This is a false dependency, due to using the old GTK 2.20.1 PET from Wary 5.1.x. It seems that "plugin container" sees that this library is not bonafide (it is a symlink to libX11.so.6) and refuses to run the Flash player.

The solution is to compile GTK 2.20.1 in Wary 5.2.x, which I have done, and Flash now works.

Posted on 17 Nov 2011, 7:40 by scsijon
wary & gtk
so that we consider, for wary builds we use gtk 2.20.1 and not 2.24.5 or 2.24.8?

Any rough ideas of what we 'loose' by not updating?

Posted on 17 Nov 2011, 7:50 by scsijon
403 forbidden?
getting above message when trying to download wary (2nd time, we had a power glitch)?

Posted on 17 Nov 2011, 9:17 by previously know as aarf
tar -zxf install_flash_player*
should work and need less maintenance. for me it is manually every time. same like pulling a local .swf from web flash content. moving target.
any how the flash plugin in my portable opera is independent of racy and would go in the wrong place for my setup if i used the auto downloader. seamonkey is only for monkeys..

Posted on 17 Nov 2011, 16:39 by Sage
I fixed the Flash download problem. I have also fixed the "slow" Flash problem.
Hope you can upload new RCs soon as we have been without viable Wary/Racy candidates for some while.

Why not take the opportunity to dump SM at the same time? Frankly, despite my well-aired preference, at this stage I don't really care whether the substitute is Midori, Netsurf, FF, or you-know-what. Better still utilise the Quickpet concept for punters to d/l their preference when then click 'Browser'.

No pressure, then....

Posted on 18 Nov 2011, 5:55 by max
"So the question remains: maximise the user satisfaction or chase the tiger.
On the other hand, although it may well prove impossible in practice, a single tightly coordinated effort between the Puppy gurus following just a single objective at a time might save a lot of teeth gnashing?"