I am currently fixing the Arch Puppy build in Woof, and I ran into a problem with udev -- my udev PET package (version 167) only has 'libudev.so.0', whereas Arch requires 'libudev.so.1'. That was just the start of it.
When 'udev' was a separate package, there was 'libudev.so.0', and after merging into 'systemd' package it became 'libudev.so.1'. They are not compatible, you can't just create a symlink for libudev.so.0.
I want to keep using 'module-init-tools' for awhile longer, however Arch has gone over to 'kmod' -- well, apart from it's merits, they had to, as udev in systemd requires it.
I had a look at compiling 'systemd', with a view to taking out just the udev parts. The systemd developers say that this is do-able, however they don't make it easy. In fact, the pressure is there to adopt systemd.
Which I don't want to do either. I want Puppy Linux to stay with Busybox init. If I do move to anything else, it will probably be to 'minit', another init-like system.
I don't want to lose libudev.so.0 either, as there are some apps linked to it that I want to keep using.
My Wary Puppy doesn't even have dbus, but it seems that systemd requires dbus.
So, I turned to eudev, the fork of udev. Three of the eudev developers gave a presentation recently at a conference, and they were ganged-up-on by the clique of systemd developers. Then a lot of other people who haven't really got a clue, propagated the criticisms.
I took a good look at eudev. It is what it claims to be, "system agnostic". I was able to disable use of libkmod, as I am still using module-init-tools. I was able to configure it to build both libudev.so.0 and libudev.so.1. It does not need dbus.
The developers have stated that it is experimental and may be buggy, but I have tested it and it works fine so far.
This is how I configured it:
./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var --sbindir=/sbin --libdir=/usr/lib --libexecdir=/lib/udev --build=i486-pc-linux-gnu --with-rootlibdir=/lib --with-firmware-path=/lib/firmware/updates:/lib/firmware --disable-introspection --disable-selinux --enable-legacylib --disable-libkmod --enable-gudev --with-rootprefix="" --disable-gtk-doc --disable-manpages --disable-keymap
Note, I disabled manpages as that failed to build.
Here are the PETs (963K, 372K):
Note to anyone not using Puppy Linux, those PETs do not have any rules in them. Puppy has his own set of rules, that are provided in the Woof build system.
The source package is in my sources repo:
I got the source from here:
Note, the last commit was about a month ago. I think that the developers got disheartened after being attacked. I would like to tell them that I like what they have done, and to keep at it.
Their eudev is actually going to be used in a distro, my Puppy Linux, at least on one variant.
I am strongly of the opinion that udev should never have been merged into systemd. Of course, the developers of most of the major distros could not care less, they have gone over to systemd and kmod. So it is a non-issue for them.
There are some things that have to catch-up, such as Busybox, then I will likely move to kmod. But not systemd -- what I have read about it, I don't like. My personal opinion of course.
Comments:Posted on 9 Mar 2013, 16:15 by Sage
No. 2 in DW
Got to be doing something right to achieve this much interest, even if it's transient and poorly characterised data analysis! Congratulations.
My guess is that the appeal lies in producing an OS that runs on OLD kit, but might also run on some new junk rather than vice versa? Everybody has old stuff kicking around but frequently it's the spoilt brats having too much dosh, shiny new lamps, lack of imagination, no commitment to recycling and, perhaps, upstairs deficiencies, to boot!
In the present economic climate, which may extend for another decade, your continuing efforts are destined to succeed.
Death to secure booting and the Wintel cartel...
Posted on 10 Mar 2013, 11:00 by Dewbie
What they need
I think that the developers got disheartened after being attacked. I would like to tell them that I like what they have done, and to keep at it.
If they're aware of Puppy Linux, and know that you appreciate and rely on their work, then by all means speak up...it will probably inspire them!
Posted on 10 Mar 2013, 16:12 by BarryK
Well, I deliberately worded my post in an aggressive manner, so as to "stir the pot". Or, "ruffle a few feathers". I do get that wicked gleam in my eyes sometimes.
Yes, I do hope that they keep working on eudev. It might only remain a niche player, but important nonetheless.
Posted on 11 Mar 2013, 12:59 by aarf
sage wrote: "Ladislav may have the 'PCLinux' problem with that Mageia entry. According to a straw poll, it really isn't that popular, or of interest, or whatever. Indeed, some of my contacts hadn't heard of it nor realised the Mandrake/Mandriva & forks fiasco.
Mint, Puppy, Debian, Fedora, SuSE seem entirely credible.
Notwithstanding the accepted limitations of this method of data analysis."
other methods could also be used to gauge popularity.
1. do a search for mageia on irc freenode and you will see that mageia is indeed well chatted. the red herrings appear to be, wait for it: puppylinux and mint.
even PClinuxos beats puppy by far.
2. torrent download seeds. puppy fails miserable here too. while arch, ubuntu well deserve there ranking.
so it would seem that it is puppy that is slanting the score more so than pclinuxos and mageia.
images to come shortly.
Posted on 11 Mar 2013, 13:05 by aarf
not by the scroll bar that ubuntus popularity goes off the screen by a looong way
Posted on 11 Mar 2013, 13:15 by aarf
ok so pclinuxos is not "by far" ahead of puppy but still ahead on this statistically significant random sample
Posted on 11 Mar 2013, 13:56 by mavrothal
I believe that the popularity measurement by irc activity can be very misleading.
IRC historically is used mostly by developers and actually channels and people/channel (usually the same people in many channels) reflect just that.
See channels sorted by #people as an indication.
Distrowatch on the other hand indicates interest/curiosity (but not necessarily use) by general audiences.
Posted on 11 Mar 2013, 14:23 by aarf
os stats for distrowatch
remember we also have access to http://distrowatch.com/awstats/awstats.DistroWatch.com.osdetail.html
pupppy huh, what that? some unknown component? :)
note ubuntu ahead of android
Linux 13392179 45.9 % ahead of
Windows 12727953 43.6 %
calling this a general audience population sample would be a stretch of belief by other, say news website stats.
Posted on 11 Mar 2013, 14:41 by mavrothal
Distrowatch visits are understandably from computer enthusiasts/geeks (20/% with "unspecified" GNU/linux !!!) which may explain Puppy's popularity in distrowatch, but is still more general than IRC channels. No?
Posted on 11 Mar 2013, 14:53 by aarf
random news stats by os
google search for random news site statshttp://crimeindetroit.com/awstats/cgi-bin/awstats.pl?framename=mainright&output=osdetail
Windows 231826 64.5 %
Linux 67323 18.7 %
Macintosh 39228 10.9 %
Android not shown
complied by the same web-stats engine.
Posted on 11 Mar 2013, 15:05 by aarf
i'm not really that knowledgeable about chat channels as it is only recently that i have used them to any extent, but will note that there are many networks with many users on quite a few of these networks, eg dalnet and freenode. while freenode is mainly linux, dalnet is other stuff and these dalnet users have the option of going to freenode. but yes freenode seems to have the most users. so devs may rule irc as you say.
Posted on 12 Mar 2013, 8:09 by BarryK
I have received feedback from a couple of the eudev developers, and they will be continuing the development.
Posted on 17 Mar 2013, 19:55 by aarf
mint irc non freenode.
mint doesnt use freenode as its irc network
http://forum.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=47779&sid=1f8f7a7f037c734979ecba71ba7908b3 so that is why there are so few mint users there. but a quick look at the official mint channel also says it is not exceptionally popular.
but it was a good move by mint to get off of "freenode". can puppy do the same? seems anywhere would be a better network. all it would need is a push from the top. then puppy too might be more chatted.
Posted on 18 Mar 2013, 15:30 by aarf
port number: 6667
Posted on 17 Apr 2013, 11:47 by scsijon
eudev-1_beta4 is out and dated 10 April.
From reading a lot of messages across a number of bbs's it seems that the gentoo variety is suppose to have a 'switch' to de-systemd your systemd system, but not sure what stage it's at. It would be interesting to try that.
It would certainly be interesting to build a very basic puppy with it instead of udev and see what it's like. I might rebuild my myz puppy (minimal racy) up to racy 5.5 and then see what happens with a eudev parallel, now the final beta of mage2 is out and joe has 'quietened down' with the jwm updates.